Hey Man… I need some advice. I enjoy reading your posts and pretty much reach the same conclusions as do you. I am the source of relationship advice for most all of my buddies and unfortunately have no one to turn to when I need such advice. While I try to give myself advice, it is not objective and am reminded of the adage that only a fool has himself as a lawyer. Your insight would be appreciated.
I’m in my early 30s, do more than ok with chics, great job, successful, blah…blah…blah. I have a couple of circles I run in, one of them being with 4-5 girls, who are my age, all single and attractive. And they all bitch about the low caliber of available men. Of the girls, one of them is the Queen Bee and has the personality of an Alpha Male… she boozes, is hot, rich, confident, smart and is a fun time, as I feel she is a female version of me.
Anyway, I dated her sister, Kristen, two summers ago, for a couple of months, and the relationship ended on great terms. Last spring, I dated Kristen’s friend, Laura for two months, and ended on great terms. I keep in touch with both girls.
All the while, I was dating another girl for a year while I was dating these girls. It turns out, this girl’s roommate is best friends, and runs in the circle, with the girls I mentioned, Queen Bee, Kristen, and Laura. Having said that, my dating relationships were explicitly non-exclusive and none of them were shocked when they put all of the pieces together, as I never lied to any of them, and they knew not to have the expectation of exclusivity.
OK….
So over the course of the last couple of months, I’ve been hanging out with the girls quite a bit and more so with Queen Bee then anyone else. Often times 3-4 nights a week and she always complains about no guys out there and how she is willing to lower her standards to find a guy. I can hear her clock ticking and realize she is looking for a relationship and the guys she has considered by no means pose competition to me in any way.
Over the last two weeks, I realized that I want to date this girl. I have two challenges and would appreciate your advice:
1) Getting HER past the fact that I slept with her sister, sister’s best friend, and best friend’s roommate all in the course of two years. When friends ask her about me, she says no way, he dated my sister. While it may seem as hurdle, I think she is willing to look past it, if she wants to look past it. The matter needs to be neutralized and sold the right way.
2) My other challenge is I am way deep in the friend zone. Up until two weeks ago it was not an issue but now find this to be an even bigger hurdle to surpass. In order to get the tactical advantage, I’ve taken steps to hang out with her less and not to initiate contact until she does so first.
So, if I could get your third party insight into my situation, I’d be most grateful.
DCB says,
The friends zone is death. Off the top of my head I can not remember a single man who came out of the friends zone to get a bang. You have to drop the logical strategerizing and go for emotion: wrap this girl so up in jealousy that she suddenly realizes she has the hots for you. In other words, you need to bring dates on your outings and make out with them in front of her. That takes a lot of work, so you have to ask yourself if she is worth it. While no girl is technically “worth it,” it would be a fun experiment to try.
Kathryn says,
Queen Bee certainly thinks a lot of herself, doesn’t she? But then again, so do you.
First - do you value your friendship with her more than you would getting a notch? Because I’m not sure she could ever be in a long-term relationship with you, but you guys could probably have a drunken encounter or two. If you’re okay with just a couple rolls in the hay, even if it would ruin your friendship (with ALL these girls - if she’s really the Queen Bee, she’ll get them to hate you), then go with DCB’s advice and make her jealous. I don’t recommend making out with other girls in front of her, but having dates and letting her know about them, not hanging out with her 3-4 times a week in favor of dating other girls and making sure she knows about them…yeah, that should work.
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Hey man, I’ve made it past the friend zone (unintentionally) using the strategy DCB advocates. I eventually came to realize that I liked Girl A, but was unsure about what to do about it. She was a female version of me, and I liked kicking it with her and realized I wanted to date her. Anyway, I decided to move on to avoid ruining a good thing, and started dating Girl B about the same time Girl A was ready to move on from her last dating experience.
Anyway, here’s what happened:
Girl A became extremely competitive (like Alpha Females are wont to), and began to try to undermine my interest in Girl B by pointing out that I didn’t really like her etc. Then we got drunk and she asked me not to hit on her since she was so vulnerable (I didn’t, but in retrospect that was an open invitation to start dating then). Then she joked about kissing me on New Year’s (oh-yeah all of this took place from mid-November to January) but chickened out at the last minute. After the playful back and forth confirmed that she was into me, I made my move. (And we eventually got marriend). The point is that I didn’t set out to do this intentionally, but DCB’s advice is right on the money.
Just work it slow like I did and you can be golden. And if you’re not willing to work it slow and strategically, then you probably don’t really want her that much anyway.
90210 is so last decade. Eesh. Find other people to date.
Comment by Anonymous on 05/24/06.
Once you fall in the “friend zone” you pretty much stay there or get phased out. I’m not sure she’ll ever be able to take you seriously given the fact that you’ve already dated her sister, friend etc. I think it would very hard for her to get past that if what you want is a serious relationship with her. I think she is comfortable with you just being a “friend”..or maybe she wouldn’t be averse to the possible romp in the bedroom thing.. but I doubt she’ll ever see you as “serious relationship” material.
Comment by Jada on 05/24/06.
yeah move on
Comment by nabeel on 05/24/06.
Agreed with most posters and party with DCB–mostly with Kathryn on this one…BUT give it a try subtly…bring out dates and see how she responds but BY NO MEANS make out with a girl in front of her…that wont make her jealous…that will make her want to throw up.
Men-if you EVER want to get rid of a normal girl…hooking up with other girls IN that ones face is the sure way to make her disapear and be naseauted by you forever…that is unless you want to date a useless, shallow, insecure GIRL and in that case…No, hell any girl would be skeeved by that…
a) You dated her sister b) You slept with her sister and c) She has told her circle that she will not date you BECAUSE you dated/slept with her sister. You’re doomed.
But cheer up - if you really are the Dating God that you claim to be, your head will be turned by another pretty lil thing in the near future.
Comment by Anonymous on 05/24/06.
I agree with KassyK- do NOT hook up with other girls in front of her or even talk about other girls. She’s already been subjected to you groping all of her friends and family she doesn’t need any more in her face.
I would *never* hook up with someone who had sex with my sister, but I do know girls that would… so you never know! Maybe if you appeal to her sensitive side that would be a better move… people that SEEM so tough are usually begging for someone to reach out and appeal to their softer side… although if she is like me and just has strict rules with her sister about sharing me then it’s a no-go no matter what you do. Why don’t you ask her point blank “What would you do if I tried to kiss you?”- that will give you your answer ;)!!! GOOD LUCK!!!!
Comment by Pinky! on 05/24/06.
Your biggest hurdle is not the “friend” zone but the fact that you slept with her sister. I don’t know many sisters who would take the other’s leftovers. That said, if the sister thinks that you dating the Alpha Girl is a good/great idea (i.e. her whole hearted approval), you can try to get her to fix you and Alpha Girl up.
Comment by Jane A on 05/24/06.
So you banged her sister, her sisters friend, and now you want to bang the rat pack leader.
I tip my cap to you cowboy. You are a bold bold man.
PM- No blog, but I am a freelance writer - unfortunately due to the anonymity I need in order to spill my guts on this site I cannot share any of my work…:)
Comment by Pinky on 05/25/06.
That’s too bad. You should try the anonymous route- it works pretty well for me, except I don’t get to participate in the blog happy hour scene.
I feel like anonymous blogging would be too frustrating- when I write something good I like to show it off way too much to keep it anonymous!! And if it’s non- anonymous- blogging– than I wouldn’t really be able to say anything I *really* want to say … at least not at this point in my life :). But- you never know…. things may change….
Comment by Pinky on 05/25/06.
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