The back story - My best friend (GF) from college hooked up sporadically with another friend (HU) of ours for approximately 3 years. During this time HU had a significant girlfriend, slept with other people, and continued to be friends with GF; they just never did the relationship thing. The GF would sporadically feel horrible about their NSA arrangement (to the point of crying, mini depressions, swearing him off) then would hook up with him again. The whole thing became an eye roll inducing scene for the rest of us.
The incident - Almost a year ago, after a typical night of binge drinking the gf passed out on HU’s couch. A few of us tried to wake her up to take her home but she resisted so we rolled our eyes and went home, figuring they were gonna do their thing. Next day gf says that HU took advantage of her b/c she was passed out, that she started crying while they were hooking up and that they then lay in bed and talked for an hour about her various boy issues. HU’s recollection of that night is totally different. And yes, objectively they were both hammered.
Fast forward to approximately three months later and gf has handled event by completely avoiding HU to the point that she stops hanging out with the whole group. GF never said anything to HU about that night but is still despondent. The eye rollers secretly believe that her issues are more guilt and general crapiness about hooking up with HU for so long. A few more months pass and GF starts coming out to places where HU is, they talk and are normal, seems like things are normalish again. (Also GF now has boyfriend with whom she spends the majority of her time).
A few months ago, BF and I had huge fight about our own friendship issues and GF ends the whole thing by saying HU raped her and that she has secretly hated me since then for still being friends with HU and that we have different standards of friendship. Also b/c GF was with her new man and hating me, i developed a much stronger friendship with HU. The present - have not talked to GF since she cut me off, the whole group is moving away and it really hurts me to think that after 5 years of friendship, its all over.
Is the only way for our friendship to be salvaged for me to punch HU in the face and never talk to him again?
Kathryn says,
It really bothers me that GF waited months and months to use the word rape. She said “took advantage of” until you had a “huge fight” about your “own friendship issues.” It makes her accusation extremely suspicious. I don’t take rape or near-rape or date-rape situations lightly (who does?), but this seems a lot like she was desperately trying to say something to keep you as a friend, or hurt you worse than you were hurting her in the moment.
I am old and have left behind friends who were more trouble than they were worth because I didn’t want to put the time and energy into the friendship. So far, I have no regrets. The only people who came back into my life did so because we both changed enough to have a healthy (if not as close) friendship later on.
Please, please cut ties with her. Some day she may grow up, go through a little therapy and a lot of life experience, and be worthy of your friendship, trust, time, and energy. But she’s not there right now. I’m sorry.
DCB says,
I don’t see why people view friendships as investments: 5 years or 10 years, it doesn’t make a difference if the relationship breaks down.
Your friend definitely did not get raped. Judging by the amount of drama she produces, the rape accusation was just something she threw out there so you’d sympathize with her self-created situation. The friendship with your girlfriend has nothing to do with HU and everything to do with her. In other words, the friendship is over.
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Oh geez this whole rape fabrication shit really pisses me off! This guy is lucky to not have been thrown in jail and sharing a cell with big bubba.
This girl should be locked up for the rest of her life… She is a danger to society if she is tossing the word ‘rape’ out there for her own selfish interests and no consideration for her friends. If I was a judge, I’d laugh her out of court because IF there was a rape, she waited too long to report it and by then, all evidence has been destroyed. I would never take the her-word-against-his cases. If I do see evidence and the rape is reported immediately, I would take it very seriously.
If I were the guy asking the question, I would cut ties with the girl and remain friends with HU.
Comment by nabeel on 06/07/06.
I agree…I know a guy that was IN JAIL for THREE years people…THREE years on a false accusaton. He finally got released (he was in a max security prison at 20 years old straight from college) and is now in law school to get his degree and get his life together. The case was thrown out after some evidence come up later…long story either way–but thank gd his slate is wiped clean but he will NEVER be the same.
Rape is one of the worst offenses one can commit again someone else but LYING about it…it just as bad. She brought it up in an odd context and if he HAD raped her–the chances of her hanging out with him after the fact are slim to NIL. And If she was raped–then I feel for her and her inability to really get some help on the situation.
It sucks all around but you HAVE to cut her out. There is something wrong with this girl.
So, her story is that he raped her, stopped when she started crying, and lay there with her to discuss her issues after. Yeah, I’m just gonna build this bypass through the hole in her story. Someone who thought they were being raped of would have split as soon as he got off of her.
To answer your question: Yes.
You were supposed to show solidarity with your fellow woman and believe her when she told you that the sky is flashing bright neon colors and the birds were singing a disco beat. Not only were you supposed to believe her you were supposed to be mean and nasty to the guy and stop hanging out with him.
If she grows up you can try again, but for now just let her go.
Hmmm…interesting contrast between today’s question and yesterday’s question about why women were always perceived as psycho and could they ever lose that label. Coincidence?
Comment by kxk on 06/07/06.
This girl definetely seems to have issues w/ this guy, but that does not automatically mean that he did not rape her. And just because she didn’t tell you about it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Rape is emotionally numbing, and just because she didn’t react how you see fit doesn’t make her crazy. Cutting ties with a friend in need is a very selfish thing to do. Clearly she has issues, whether the rape happened or not, and that is exactly why she needs the support of friends right now. That doesn’t mean you have to be as close, but its really sad that everybody here advocates ditching this girl. This could be her way of reaching out for help, don’t forget- what goes around comes around, and if you go around treating your friends like this, don’t expect anybody to support you when your back is against the wall.
Comment by jg on 06/07/06.
jg, the writer didn’t dump her friend. The friend is abandoning her. She’s just trying to figure out how to get her back. If the writer’s version of the story is accurate then the friend is trying to rationalize sleeping with some other woman’s man.
“It really bothers me that GF waited months and months to use the word rape. She said “took advantage of” until you had a “huge fight” about your “own friendship issues.” It makes her accusation extremely suspicious. I don’t take rape or near-rape or date-rape situations lightly (who does?), but this seems a lot like she was desperately trying to say something to keep you as a friend, or hurt you worse than you were hurting her in the moment.”
it “bothers” you kathryn?!?!? the fact that you are judging someone’s rape allegation having never met them and based solely on a few paragraphs of text makes me question how you can actually say that you don’t take these situations lightly. i think you have waded into an area and cast judgment on something that you have absolutely no understanding of. i am going to share a personal experience in the hopes that you at least see how complicated these kinds of issues can be. because your reaction (accurate or not) actually has an impact on victims.
i am a 32 year old professional woman. my job takes me to every corner of the globe and allows me to interact with and lead people from all walks of life - from CEO’s to heads of countries to small farmers in impoverished african villages. i am lucky to have an incredible group of friends - some whom i have known for 25 years and some whom i have known for brief periods of time but all of whom i think would find the idea of a drama-filled “friend divorce” to be a ridiculous concept. and i have a strong (perhaps too strong) sense of what i want out of life and what values and priorities matter to me. i think my head is screwed on about as straight as anyone’s can be although i’m sure the choices and actions i’m about to describe may cause those who don’t know me to question this.
my life was turned upside down when i was raped by a boyfriend 3 years ago. sounds crazy i suppose to be raped by someone you are dating but it is true. he knew i was not ready to have sex with him but he forced himself on me one night in my apartment. i said no and tried to push him off but couldn’t because he is a heck of a lot bigger than me. and then for some reason i froze, stopped fighting and let him finish. when it ended i just lay there shaking and sobbing while he prepared to head for home. awful.
in your world kathryn i would have probably pressed charges, or ended the relationship, or any other strong, confident, rational reaction. but instead, when my boyfriend resurfaced about a week later completely apologetic and affectionate, i let him back into my life. and i fought like hell for another year to try to make the relationship work, enduring a lot of emotional and physical suffering in the process. i think in my head i thought if we somehow ended up happy together then it would erase what he had done and i would not have to have a word like “rape” in my life story.
initially, i only told my best friend about what happened. if i hadn’t needed to stay with her in the days following his attack (because i was afraid to be at home) i may not have even done that. things were even more complicated because my “boyfriend” was a colleague and so i routinely saw him in the office and at work functions. in fact i continue to do so today.
even when the “relationship” was finally over and i started sharing my story with a small number of my close friends i did not like to use the word “rape.” reactions exactly like yours can make victims terribly afraid to use the correct term - myself included. because we like to blame ourselves, deny what happened and a whole host of other self-destructive things.
i had a conversation recently with a man i have known and loved for ten years. he is one of my favorite guy friends from university. i thought that he knew about the rape. i remember telling him about it more than a year ago. i guess i didn’t use the actual word “rape” because it is far easier to say things like “hurt me” or “forced himself on to me”. in this recent chat when i said the word “rape” my friend was schocked. and saddened. with tears in his eyes and a lump in his throat he expressed outrage (as well as surprise that i had not told him). i was dumbfounded because i thought he knew. it was really surprising to me that even when my “relationship” ended and even when i was talking to people that i loved who had seen me through thick and thin, i was afraid to use the actual word “rape”.
so what you find to be so odd and what “bothers” you: waiting for months to talk about the situation even to close friends, continuing to interact with the rapist, hesitancy to use the word “rape” are all things that i lived.
i cannot press charges against this man as i have not a shred of proof that the judicial system (rightly so) would require to convict him. my biggest worry about this is that somehow my lack of action will cause someone else to be harmed by him. so while i cannot see that he is brought to justice i can speak out when i see ignorant comments which have the potential to harm victims. thanks for giving me the chance to air these concerns.
Comment by wtf?!?!? on 06/11/06.
In defense of the anonymous writer: DCB is right in that friendships aren’t an investment. People come and go, and the writer will still have her memories of her group of friends. If someone says they don’t want you in their life, why would you want to push the issue? Besides, the writer doesn’t really make it seem like they were all that fond of GF to begin with, what with the “eye rolling inducing situation” that GF caused by hooking up with HU. Writer, take the get out of jail free card and cut ties with someone who sounded like a pain before this fight you had.
In defense of GF: I agree with WTF in that not everyone will use the word rape to describe what happened to them — either immediately after the rape happens or, perhaps, ever. I have a few friends who were raped, but who did not initially use that word to describe the incident because of all the weight that word carries. Further, as a rape outreach volunteer, I don’t use the word rape when working with victims until they use it because, again, it is a stigmatizing word. I also agree with WTF when she writes that a victim may act counterintuitively to the rape. Rape victims do not always do things you would want or expect them to. For example, Ibid, a victim may not run away as soon as the perpertator is finished or gets off. Not everyone who is raped will immediately leave the situation as soon as they can. It’s confusing and upsetting, but it’s true. And though I do not fault the writer for their reaction to GF’s story or their continuing the friendship with HU, I wonder if maybe GF is angry because she thinks that the writer did not believe her. If someone has been raped/feels violated, often one of their major emotional needs is to be believed, and it doesn’t sound like GF got that from her group of friends (the eyerollers who thought it was guilt from the hook up). I’m not saying that GF’s friends have to believe her, I’m just suggesting a reason that GF may be upset. I canNOT stress enough that I am NOT saying I know for certain that GF was raped, or that I think everyone in the situation should agree with GF’s sequence of events on the night in question. I just wanted to provide a little background as to the ways in which rape victims do act, to point out that, raped or not, GF’s behavior isn’t necessarily out of sync with that of a victim.
Just out of curiosity, DCB - what do you consider rape? I’ve read the date rape post on this site from a while back, and admit that both the situation described here and in that post are hazy, but I just wonder what you think rape is. I’m particularly interested since you subscribe to my number one most hated myth about sex & women: (as per your #3 dating tip for men) don’t take the first no for an answer. In my book, “no” means you don’t have consent to continue, and if sex occurs without consent, that’s rape. Ignoring a “no” in the bedroom doesn’t automatically constitute rape, but it also doesn’t set a good precedent for completely consensual sex either. DCB I think you’re funny and I like your cat, I’m just bummed you encourage (be it as a joke or otherwise) men to ignore a “no” from a woman in the bedroom.
Comment by MM on 06/11/06.
I want to thank the previous two posters for fighting just a few of the myths about rape. DCB and Kathryn’s dismissive attitude regarding rape is pretty sad. If either of them had a close friend that they know had been raped, they would act very differently. Just a few facts which I think people may find helpful.
- While DCB may think that a situation being hazy on both parts makes anything ok, but he’s wrong. Consent, which should not just be implied or assumed even though she says no, is not valid if someone is intoxicated. I’m not talking legal limit to drive intoxicated, but if your memory is truly hazy then you are not legally considered capable of giving consent.
- 42% of rape survivors have sex with their attacker again. Because rape is about losing control, many survivors believe that they can regain control through consensual contact with their attacker. WTF provides a perfect example of this. Therefore, GF may have been trying to reclaim what happened to her by spending time with him.
- 20-25% of college aged women report having “submitted to sexual intercourse against their will” (CDC).
- Approximately 5% of rapists will serve jail time for their crime.
While I’m not denying that there are false rape reports, accusations, and convictions, I am still inclined to believe the survivor. Every survivor is going to react differently, so it’s really hard to say that they didn’t do something ‘right’ or ‘how you expected’. Also, prosecuting rape is very difficult. One of my friends who was a virgin when she was raped in college and even had voicemails from the attacker talking about the rape afterwards was told by the prosecutor that she didn’t have a strong enough case.
My stats come from (http://www.nomorerape.org/statistics.php). I’m not a part of this group, but they do good work educating men about rape.
