I don’t know how many times you have come across this and if it makes you repeat yourself, sorry about that!
I’m a 23 year old guy, average to decent looks, good dress sense, swimming now 3 times a week, 5’10”, medium length hair that I guess could be called careful carelessness, great lips (or so I have been told several times, do other guys get this??), average size hands, could stand to lose a few pounds (which I am working on)
Im Indian but work in New York for a hedge fund and am on a short stint in London. I am out of a 5 year on-off, long distance relationship (I went to school in the US, she was in India). She was also 2 years older than I and we came to that point of time where she wanted other things (like a commitment) and I felt 23 is a bit young to get married and besides, I subconsciously didn’t want to marry her (we have different personalities…I love partying once a week but also like to laze around in bed, when im thinking, I can go very quiet which she felt was a communication problem…anyway, we had issues).
Now here’s the issue that I have been wrestling with –I’m the ‘friends’ guy…as in most of my friends are women…and I mean most! But the problem is none of them are attracted to me. And each time I have told I am attracted to them I’ve been told that I would “make a great boyfriend but….” I think I just start off as friends and by the time I work up the nerve to tell them, its too late and we are friends already. I hate that! It’s the worst feeling in the world to be friends with someone you fall for because then things get ruined for a bit…and then when they are back to normal she comes to you for boy-advice.
So that’s one thing. The other is meeting women. No, I don’t have too many issues meeting them…as in at a party I will talk to this girl and if I am genuinely interested, that does come across to her so she usually says yes if I ask if she wants to get a coffee later in the week…but then again, we are becoming friends rather than anything else I may want!
And since im spilling the beans right now, meeting women at parties is one thing but how do I approach a woman at a club…I don’t feel comfortable just picking this girl, randomly rubbing up against her in the euphemism of dancing aka grinding…besides, I wouldn’t want a relationship with a girl I met randomly rubbing up against her!
So yeah, I was attracted to this girl here in London…we went for impromptu drinks several times…last night before I hit the sack messaged her and she ended by saying, “I think you are fab. I am so glad we are friends”
Shoot me shoot me now, nice guys apparently don’t have a cut in the world
Chaco says,
Oh man, I feel your pain bro. Been there, had that problem. But I worked on myself and fixed the situation, so I feel qualified to comment.
In the game of pick up, there are two things you need: attraction and rapport. You are only getting rapport with the girls you meet, hence they want to be your friend, but you are not getting attraction. That is, you don’t make women hot for you. So how do you do that? Here are some tips.
1. Phsyical appearance. Maximize your looks by working out and getting in shape (lose the pounds, bro). Stlyish clothes and hair also make a huge difference in how your appearance is judged by women. For clothes, go to a cool club with your female friends and ask them to point out the best looking and best dressed men. Also look for the guys who have hot girls
hanging on their arms. That’s who you want to become, so model them. For hair, go to a gay hair salon and find a gay stylist. Tell him “do whatever you want, but make me fashionable as possible.” Trust me, just do it.
2. Social status. At your age, your socal status is not strictly determined by your professional standing, but more by your standing in your peer group. Are you a leader of the group? Do you set the agenda for what people do? Do the men in the group show you respect? Girls will pick up on your status very acutely, so you need to becomes a leader who commands respect. Don’t be the nice guy who goes along with everyone and allows himself to be the butt of jokes.
3. Your confidence. Girls admire confidence because confident guys succeed at what they do. They also love confident guys because they are often upbeat and fun to be around. Confident guys also invariably have high social status within their peer groups. Question for you: do you think you deserve the best women? If you don’t think you deserve them, they won’t either. How to be confident? Monitor your thinking and eliminate negativity from your self talk and replace with positive affirmations.
4. Your sexuality. Girls love sex. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Read Cosmo Magazine if you don’t believe me (seriously). Therefore, they like men who like sex and who go for it with confidence. Are you one of those types who worries that you might offend a girl if you try to kiss her too soon? Or, god help you, do you ask first before you kiss her? New rule for
you: end every first date with a kiss. Then try to get at least ‘one level’ further each subsequent date.
Oh man, I could write a book on this…but I wont. Read DCB’s book when he finishes it. In the meantime, get an ebook called “Secrets of the Alpha Male” by Carlos Xuma.
Kathryn says,
Oh, man. What Chaco said.
But I will add this: I think you’re too available to these women you like. Taking them out for drinks several times without any kind of romantic activity involved, texting them at all hours, letting them know you’re thinking of them… Women are often drawn to that kind of attention, and will in some ways indulge and encourage it because it makes them feel good, but they don’t always want to reciprocate. So play it a little cooler. Don’t text or call every time you feel the urge. Play those cards a little closer to the vest.
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I have said this before and I’ll say it again…nice = boring. When a girl says “you’re a nice guy”, it’s a total backhanded compliment. What she really means is “you’re a boring guy”. For some reason, guys have yet to pick up on this, and keep bragging to women that they are “nice guys” like it’s some sort of honor badge?
My advice, stop labeling yourself as a “nice” guy. Get a thesaurus and pick some more interesting words you can live up to…like charasmatic, charming, enchanting, fascinating, etc.
Saturn is dead on. This whole “nice guys don’t have a shot” thing is bs. There are plenty of nice guys who are charming and get girls. But nice doesn’t necessarily mean dumpy without exhibiting much romantic sense. NO rubbing required. Be fun, be charming, but don’t be her brother.
Listen to Chaco and Kathryn.
Comment by Anonymous on 08/23/06.
Don’t be emotionally available to women and you will go far. You don’t have to go change your whole appearance. why would you take a girl out for drinks all time, and I assume you are paying, if you are just going to be friends…would you do that for your guy friends?
Comment by Anonymous on 08/23/06.
You’re boned.
Women have this internal checklist of what they want. When you manage to fill every point on the checklist the women will be as baffled as you as to why they aren’t having sex with you at that very moment. Katherine said it awhile back. They don’t want to see your penis. They don’t even know it’s on their checklist. They just know you’re handsome, funny, well dressed, successful, good with kids, charming, a good dancer, like the same books, attentive, romantic, etc. but they still aren’t attracted to you. More than that they can’t think of anyone to hook you up with.
What I’ve found works is women who have suffered some sort of sexual abuse in the past. Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t cruise abused women centers, but every women I’ve been with was sexually abused as a kid. One was a virgin and the other two were lesbians. They dated me because I was safe - because I was a nice guy. They also had saturn8isgreat’s brains but I’m not sure how relevant that is.
Advice? uhhh…mmmm … well, from what I’ve heard here over the last few months the key is treating women like you might an inflatable doll. Assume that anything goes until she maces you. But I doubt that you can do that any more than I can.
All commenter opinions are their own and do not reflect the views of FDDC Management.
Comment by FDDC on 08/23/06.
yeah, what’s with Ibid today? he seems a bit off this time…
BTW, great advice Chaco!
Comment by nabeel on 08/23/06.
You can still be a nice guy but you probably need to be more agressive physically. I’m not saying to throw them down on the floor of the cafe but if you’re going to up a door, put the hand on their backs and guide them in. Find a reason to touch their arm/their hand and they’ll get the idea. Chaco and Kathryn have the right idea.
Comment by Heather on 08/23/06.
What’s wrong? Years of being the guy mentioned above. The advice given here isn’t meant for people like us. It’s meant for bar people.
I was trying to figure out how to explain what I call being a gentleman and others call being a coward. Here’s what I’ve got. When you go into someone else’s house there are certain standards of behavior. You don’t wander around the house poking your nose in everything unless you’ve been given permission. You don’t rummage around under the bed, you don’t go through the medicine cabinet, you don’t go downstairs or upstairs without some sign that it’s ok. It’s not your house, it’s not your stuff, respect their privacy and property. Same thing with other people’s bodies. I’m not going to get all handsy on the first few dates. I’m not gonna start grabbing and groping and kissing until I get to know her and am reasonably sure she’s ok with it. I’m going to respect her body, her privacy, her personal space.
However, much of the advice I see here, from both men and women says that if I’m not doing stuff that probably deserves a knee in the groin by the end of the first date I’m not a “Man”, that I’m a coward, a pussy.
On another blog the blogess mentioned a recent poll where 100 Maxim readers were shown three pictures of the same woman with makeup, without, and with natural makeup and asked which they preferred. They said they preferred the madeup woman. I pointed out that this wasn’t a scientific poll since they used a narrow demographic of men to ask the question. A larger sampling of men in general would be needed to get an adequate reading. Similarly, I have to realize that the advice I see about how to treat women comes from a demographic that thinks bars are fun places to hang out. Any advice I read here has to be filtered with the knowledge that it was intended to be used in bars and by/on people who have had a few beers.
So I repeat - Zaphod, you’re boned. A complete makeover won’t hurt, but it probably won’t help. Change your social standing, be more confident, be more sexually agressive, you might as well choose to go back 23 years and pick new parents. There’s no “special somebody” that you’re destined for. Eventually you may find someone you click with and form a relationship but until then drop the extra weight, maybe get some help figuring out what colors and styles look good on you, be patient, figure out the right places to hang out to meet your sort of woman, and most of all try to learn how to build a life that you enjoy that doesn’t involve a girlfriend.
You know, this whole debate between “being a man” and “being a gentleman” had gotten out of hand. Nowhere has anyone on the “being a man”’s side said anything about doing stuff that will get you kneed in the groin! Making a move on a woman you’re interested in is as simple as holding her hand, pulling her close, or kissing her at the end of the night. No groping, no fondling, no ass smacking needs to ensue. So knock off the overreactions, Ibid.
I’ve had a more than a few women freak out and been slapped a few times for simply putting a hand on their shoulder. So I’m pretty cautious about even the most innocent touch. I don’t go handling rattlesnakes either.
I don’t think it matters whether you are in a bar or not, the same rules apply. You have to show interest, but not too much. I guess you can be both aggressive and respectful, but it’s a tough thing to do. A lot of girls (respectable ones) won’t fuck you the first night, but you do have to go for a kiss, to get the physical thing going. I love grabbing bitches asses in the club, they eat it up. Ok, that was a lie. Well the eating it up part anyway.
Comment by Jack on 08/24/06.
Hey my Indian brother, we Indians guys are usually brought up with no sense of the opposite sex (this is especially true if you were brought up in India).
If you grew up in India then the major thing is be more of an asshole. Treat these girls as you would any other guy you just met. By that I mean don’t treat them special, they are just another human. Oh and another thing DO NOT look to Indian movies for anything (literally anything, those things are really, really bad for learning how to pick up girls, or dancing, or anything at all). We tend to pick up stuff automatically from our environment and if your environment has consisted of 3 hour Indian movies, you have undoubtably picked up some of their “lessons”. Get them out of your psyche. Another big thing is to change your attitude towards life from one of general scarcity to one of abundance (there will always be more fish in the sea). And finally get an interesting hobby; yes your career is important and all that, but you need an interesting hobby (which is not chasing girls) for your own mental health and to attract women.
One recommendation, do everything to pull at least one one-night-stand. It will help you a lot, trust me.
~Nabs
Comment by Nabs on 08/26/06.
Shoot me for being blunt. You say there’s a girl back in India waiting for you. Well, in India women are expected to be ‘faithful’ and ‘untouched’ - so I guess She’s gonna keep waiting, and no one will marry her since she’s yours. How convienient.
Now here you are in Noo York! dating all these stunning white blondes, you short, overweight and dark Indian.
God! Youre so pathetic.
F***ing Turd.
Comment by pj on 08/27/06.
Lay off pj. What kind of blinders do you have on to diss on this boy wanting to date “American” women? We don’t know the particulars of his story with his ex so why go and paint him as someone who’s skirt chasing halfway across the world while knowing he has a honey in the corner? There are plenty of all kinds of women, regardless of ethnicity who think they should stay “chaste” b/c it’s the right thing to do. Whatever floats their boat, right?
Comment by Tatlerina on 08/29/06.
[…] The nice guy: At your age, your socal status is not strictly determined by your professional standing, but more by your standing in your peer group. Are you a leader of the group? Do you set the agenda for what people do? Do the men in the group show you respect? Girls will pick up on your status very acutely, so you need to becomes a leader who commands respect. Don’t be the nice guy who goes along with everyone and allows himself to be the butt of jokes. […]
