First Date DC

“but seriously, when should i call?”
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October 13, 2006

Mohammed v. Mountain

Girl Friday writes,

Three years ago found out my husband was cheating. In the early stages of the divorce I met this guy CD. He was a long time participant in a social circle that I was fairly new to. We hit it off, he was sweet, kind, cute, and even said he wanted to be the man that helped me trust again. I was thrilled and we dated for about seven months. Did I mention I was slightly crazed and going through a divorce at the time? Things were going good and we were getting close; that was when I dropped the bomb that I was moving out of state. I believed it was best not to stay in the same small town with my ex. It was a blow to him and he retaliated by being rude, ignoring me and I returned the favor and promptly moved.

Two year later CD calls, we both apologized for the way we acted. He says he understands why I had to leave. Then he starts saying things like ‘we’ all miss you back here, a lot of ‘people’ care about you back here. Of course by then I was in a relationship with someone else (but it was not going well), so all this really made me want to move back.

Of course when I went back for an event I spend one great night with CD. I told him that I had plans to move back, but it would be a year because of my job. Now would be a good time for him to say great, but instead he starts talking in innuendos. I played along only hinting at things myself. Neither one of us wanting to let down our guards I guess. I go back a lot more now for parties, football; I never go just to see him. We always see each other, but never make plans. It’s great while I am there, then I leave and he never even calls, unless I call him first.

I’m moving back regardless, he’s not the only reason, I miss my friends. So now I’m wondering if I should just stop these games. I did hurt him first so now maybe I should drop my guard, take the risk, and tell him I’m really interested? I’d just like to know if this is going anywhere, if he is actually interested in dating when I return. The flirting and innuendos have been fun, but isn’t it time to put the cards on the table?

So should I call him and put myself out there or let it be until I move back?

DCB says,

Too late! You blew it and it sounds like he doesn’t take you seriously anymore. He’s enjoying the sex without having to actually be in a relationship with you. What reason should he put up with more of your bullshit when he’s getting what he wants?

It’s funny how the power just kinda shifts, isn’t it?

Kathryn says,

While DCB is right in that the power has shifted, it shifted because you hurt him, you left, and you would breeze in and out of town with promises of returning in a year.

The romantic in me wants me to tell you to go for it, lay it all on the line, and ask if he’d like to give it another shot. Be absolutely sure he’s not dating anyone else if you go that route, of course.

But the pragmatist in me thinks that, if you did ask him to take you back, you’d spend quite a while convincing him you were serious about him and there to stay. And that’s assuming he agrees to try again. If he says no, then you are going to be stuck in the same small town with this guy and with your ex-husband. You may need to think about preserving your sanity a little bit.

Good luck, and please do let us know what happens.

October 12, 2006

Original Poster Responds…

Do you guys remember aw’s question about being a nice guy? Well, he just let us know how he felt about it…

Wow, thanks for actually taking my question. I was kind of surprised, to be honest. Based on the typical questions that usually get asked around here (how do I nail this girl that looks hot that is letting me buy her drinks?), I didn’t think that it would have gotten any print. I should have checked (and followed up) in the comments earlier.

Some responses:

Am I a beta? I would have to say, yes, without a problem of saying that. I can’t stand ‘competing’ because well, some people will lie and cheat and deceive people to get what they want. I have a difficult time trying to ‘work’ someone into my favor (e.g., asking to come up for a glass of water after being ‘dropped off’). I have never done that and I can’t imagine doing so now.

Nice / boring? Well, I don’t *think* I am a boring person. I grew up in 5 different countries before I was age 12 and I fly airplanes (recreationally). (wonder if anyone will know me from these details…) I might consider myself a fairly *stable* person, however. I keep up with the news and can talk about music or religion or skiing or history or bicycling. Am I an *exciting* person? I don’t think exciting, but I do think interesting. But I’m not necessarily looking for someone exciting either… I’m looking for someone that well, likes to be treated well and will do so in response.

haphazardly aiming?
This is a very good question I’ve been asking myself. As I see it, there are two different thoughts on this:
A) Ask out as many women as you can based on not much else besides how they look, then figure out if you have a good personality mix or not.
B) Ask out less women, based on knowing them a little bit more and rejecting some ‘to yourself’ because it doesn’t look good. Basically, preselect a little bit.

I’ve been doing B pretty much because well, if I was good looking and people would come up to me and try to pick me up based just on that.. well.. they don’t *know* me. Anyone can ask out anyone based on how they look, but I think it takes more to ask out someone based on a little more than that. I put effort into it… but I guess it doesn’t always show. And don’t women get tired of jerk guys coming up to them just because they’re wearing a shirt that shows some cleavage?

obsessed about getting a girlfriend?
this comment hits closest to home. I can’t in good conscience deny it. I think that I am still very jealous about what a lot of my friends had in high school and college and I never got a chance to experience until very very recently. I like sharing my life.

clingy?
I don’t think so… but again, other people will have to judge that. I know that I *do* like the feeling I get when I do things that make other people happy and/or appreciated for what I do. I do plenty of things on my own or with friends and fill my days, but there are a lot of things that I like to do with someone else.

compliment?
This is also a hard one for me. Anyone can compliment anyone else based on how they look… but it doesn’t *show* anything besides you gave them the once-over. I prefer to compliment on other things, like they way they handled a certain situation in their past, or the ability to express themself, showing that I am paying attention…. again, more that the way I would want to be treated.

move after the second date?
More to the point - and this is where I think I have a real disconnect. *WHY* in the world would I ask her out again if I’m not interested??!! I guess to me a kiss means more than it does to other people… but I also got a fairly late start to this whole process.

used for free dinners?
I’m at odds with myself here. I don’t *feel* used. I mean, according to what I read on this website, if I’m not getting action after two dates I should be never calling her again. But I’m not that way. Call me naive or whatever you want, but that is not something that I feel upset about. I asked, they agreed. I know you’re screaming ‘SELF CONFIDENCE’ at me, right now.

other things:
‘ocassionally act like a jerk to keep her honest’
I mean… I just can’t understand this. I would feel completely sick to my stomach if I ever treated someone else with anything less than complete respect or said something personal with less than complete honesty. In fact, there are definitely some people in my life who for various reasons I felt treated me wrongly… but I have never ever once raised my voice to anyone or really let them have it. Why? I don’t really know, to be honest. I guess that I think that deep down, everyone really is a good person and deserves the benefit of the doubt… at least the people who have passed my ‘prescreening’, that is.

self-confidence?
I guess I could really have compressed the above post into this one paragraph and it would have told my whole story. yes, i do lack self confidence, and I always tend to the ‘nice guy’ side of the ‘jerk’ line (which is what us nice guys always call it). I always always treat people the way I want to be treated. I don’t ’seize the moment’ enough because I don’t want to be tagged as ‘the jerk’. This is why I can *not* understand all the people that write in here saying the guy (or girl) is treating them like dirt.

I can’t change who I *am*, but I can change what I *do*.

oh, and ‘oh, I hope she thinks I’m witty’ - no, not really, ‘oh i hope she notices that I treat her with respect’ is more like it.

And there you have it!

October 11, 2006

Does DC want me?

Selkie writes,

I’m a nearly 30 year old never married female interested in relocating from NYC area to DC vicinity. I was in a long term relationship for the last 5 years on and off. I’m looking for a fresh start and a change of scene. Hence interested in possibly moving to DC. My question is whether I’d be fairly sought after by eligible men in DC. That sounds terribly cold blooded & mercenary doesn’t it?

Here are my plus points:

  • Former model (just print/commercial, not high fashion)
  • Poster child for Blond Waspiness.
  • Still thin, healthy living, not much wear & tear. (Stayed out of the sun, don’t smoke, rarely drink, imbibing caffeine is my only vice)
  • I like men and don’t feel bitter towards them.
  • In fact I often put myself in their shoes and have empathy.
  • I love being a woman. I also like being a tomboy.
  • Which means I like being a girly girl, but can also be down to earth & get dirty. (Not that kind of dirty, I meant mud ;-) )

Now for my possible negatives:

  • I’m not on high powered, high paying career path. I have a small graphic business and am debt free with about 200k in investments.
  • But I am more interested in being a fairly traditional loving wife/mother then juggling job/home/family.
  • I’m not formally educated. Opted to model instead of head to University. When I was done modeling, instead of going back to school, I had to take care of my mother who had a stroke.
  • I am an avid learner on my own and don’t feel particularly inferior by my lack of a higher degree. Don’t know if multi degreed men in DC would feel the same way.
  • Lastly, I’m a political orphan. I lean right, but have a few liberal tendencies. Does that drive men nuts ?

So do tell. Am I appealing on paper to men in the DC area? Or am I bit too offbeat from the typical DC chick? All advice appreciated.

DCB says,

Are you kidding? You’d be like a dead fish in a sea of sharks. DC is so ugly the 7’s can pick and choose: if you are thin and have a decent face, you will be treated like a supermodel. You will get so much attention that in a year you will turn into a total bitch. But unless you send me a picture, it is hard to be absolutely certain…

Kathryn says,

Wow. Just…yeah. So. Here’s what I think: there are tons of douchebags in DC, and they’re all going to LOVE you.

Please make sure you look for your mate exclusively at Smith Point, City Tavern Club, Gold Cup (Members Hill only, fall and spring), Town Hall, Third Edition, and Local 16 on weekends. Actually, you should probably go ahead and sign up for Late Night Shots now. Get to know your crowd/scene before you even get here. If you need a membership, just let me know.

If you liked this post then I think you will like my Roosh's Game Tips Email Newsletter For Guys. It's completely free and your first newsletter will be about how to meet girls in coffee shops. Following that will be newsletters on getting phone numbers, dealing with flakes, teasing girls the right way, handling cockblockers, meeting girls in foreign countries, and a whole lot more. Your email address will always remain private and you can unsubscribe at any time. To sign up put your first name and email address below and click the button.

October 10, 2006

Pinkblock

male dcbachelor reader writes,

Okay here’s this situation and I’m not sure how to proceed.

So on sunday afternoon I was at the bar with a large group of friends and friends-of-friends. We’re drinking beer, eating nachos, watching the football games, and having a good time. I was chatting with this girl for a good 20 minutes. And when she goes to the bathroom, her friend tells me that she has a boyfriend. I said nothing, just smiled and nodded.

So the girl comes back, and we chat a little more. We’re watching the football games and at the time when the Eagles fumbled and the Giants recovered for a touchdown, and basically got back in the game. She whooped and cheered, and goes “I hope the Giants win!” so I was like, “so how did you get to be a Giants fan?” She goes, “I grew up in NYC and moved here a few years ago.” At this point, I decided to test whether she really has a boyfriend or not. I go “if your boyfriend is an Eagles fan, I don’t know how you guys get along during the football season!”

She says: “Oh, I don’t have a boyfriend. Well, we’re dating, but it’s not serious. He’s not here in this town.” I took that as a green light, and a few minutes later we exchanged contact info, saying we’d get together for coffee.

Looking back on it, the way she downplayed the boyfriend bothers me a little bit. I haven’t called her yet, and I’m not sure if I should. I probably will anyway, just to feel things out. What do you people make of this? Is she really taken but just wants hookup action on the side, or is she about to dump the other guy (whom I don’t think lives in DC from what she said)? I don’t intend to be one of those suckers who get only half the attention from a two-timer.

DCB says,

What the fuck is your problem? Why do you care if she has a boyfriend or not? Your “if your boyfriend” line was just lame: it’s like you were searching for approval to hit on her.

Don’t call her; you don’t deserve to bang a girl that is basically begging to get banged. I’ll take a guess that you are one of those traditional guys that doesn’t feel “right” about hooking up with a girl that may be hooking up with another guy. Good luck with that, and welcome to the 21st century.

Kathryn says,

Never, ever listen to the girl friend. Especially if you’ve never met them before and you don’t know their dynamic. From what you’ve said, it seems you were obviously digging Girl, and Friend noticed it. She waited until Girl was in the bathroom to tell you she has a boyfriend instead of, say, mentioning the boyfriend to Girl in front of you. And to me, that means Friend has a bit of a jealousy problem. She probably thinks it’s “not fair” that Girl gets all the attention, and she’s already dating someone! Friend sounds like a miserable little green-eyed cockblocker. Not that I have ever known anyone like that.

In the future, let Girl give you the signals. Ignore the Friend on topics like this. If Girl is interested, she’ll let you know.

October 9, 2006

Booby trap

Bumptious Bungler writes,

Hey guys,

I was the guy who wrote in a while back about the girl at the strings concert who was “waiting for her date.” The advice you gave was so fun I figured I would throw this situation by you: Have first-date drinks after work with a lovely girl. It’s pretty nice. Not mind-blowingly spectacular, but not horrible either. Got a cheek-kiss greeting, so I’m prepared for a cheek-kiss goodbye. No biggie; I’m pretty confident I’m getting a second date.

I metro to work, but she drives, so she was kind enough to drop me off at my place. Problem is that when the time for the kiss comes I reach out to touch her shoulder/arm. Do I reach that? Oh no, dumbass touches her boob. Not a “grope” per se, but definitely a covering/cupping type touch that lasts as long as it takes to cheek-kiss and pull back.

So what do you do in that situation? Laugh it off? Profess you are sorry? Say you usually don’t go so far on a first date? In my case I said “Have a great weekend!” and left. Sent a text message 10 minutes later saying I totally meant to touch her arm, and that if we did dinner it better be really good to compensate. So now she either thinks I’m a total grope-fiend, or a neurotic freak. I accept that I could have handled that better, but do you have any suggestions how? (Not that I plan to accidentally boobie-touch again anytime soon…)

Kathryn says,

Always good to hear from those we’ve helped in the past, even if it just made you laugh at your own problem.

And let me tell you, I’m laughing about this problem. I really don’t think she thinks you’re a groping fiend. You didn’t move your hand in any way that could have been considered a caress or a grope, did you? If not, she probably found your shock/surprise kind of cute and charming. I think texting immediately was actually a decent recovery. But since you asked, you could have said anything that suited your sense of humor, from “well, now, that’s not an arm, is it?” to “ah, did I just touch what I think I touched? oops…” to “sweet. Now we’ve been to second base.” Anything that conveys you did it accidentally, you’re confident enough not to let it freak you out, and you can laugh it right off will work just fine.

Then, just for the record: a cheek kiss is not necessarily an indication of any kind of desire (or lack thereof, in your situation). I recently became part of a social circle where everyone does the cheek kiss hello and goodbye. I’d never seen so much cheek kissing until a few months ago. But I can assure you it’s quite automatic. And I know people who cheek kiss hello on a first date could quite easily do some real kissing at the goodbye. Just sayin’.

DCB says,

“Oops sorry that was my evil twin,” or something similar. And then never mention it again. You made a big deal out of it when you shouldn’t have.

October 4, 2006

Ibid, is that you?

aw writes,

Hi guys (30 year old male)

Why am I writing you? Well, I suppose you’ll have some snarky response that I can’t wait to hear.

I guess i have a tendency to focus more on the emotional connection than the physical connection. That being said, I tend to be a little more on the cautious side when meeting new people. I tend to be kind of protective of myself until i have at least ascertained that the person is being somewhat honest. I’m not very good at the nonverbal communication either - I tend to be more verbal and straightforward. I don’t simply have the mindframe for a lot of the ‘pretend you’re busy’ or ‘make them wait for you call’ or something like that. If I like someone, then I call them.

I guess the question is how can one tell after only 2 dates that they’re not interested. I mean, clearly there was enough interest after 1 date to try for a second, so…. what happened? And it’s a recurring theme.

Are people so jaded by other people not being honest or trying for the quick score that they assume everyone else is? I mean, I like to believe that most people are basically good and I treat people with respect…. but there’s something I’m just not getting.

DCB says,

Here’s what you said in your question:

1. “I’m a beta male with no game.”

2. “I don’t understand how attraction works.”

3. “I bore my dates to death.”

4. “Girls use me for free dinners.”

5. “I am losing the game of life.”

Who cares if a girl is interested or not? Do you think I’m sitting across from my date thinking about if she likes me? “Oh I hope she thinks I’m witty!” The only thing that matters is if I’m interested. In that case I proceed and do what an interested man does: go for sex. Otherwise I pass so guys like you can take her out to help her get over guys like me. Stop acting like a woman.

Kathryn says,

I’m stuck on the “two dates” part of your question. It seems you get a good number of second dates, but not many third dates.

Several women I know (who are nicer than I am) give pretty much anyone two dates. Sometimes women get to a point where they feel they’re rejecting men too soon, or not finding love, or not being as “open” to the universe as they should be, so they decide they’ll go out with just about anyone who asks, and give all those people two chances/dates, no matter what. I also know at least one guy who gives every woman he meets on the internet two dates so that she won’t think he didn’t find her attractive (as she might if he never called again after the first in-person meeting).

Also, if you don’t make any kind of move on the second date - not even a short kiss goodnight - your date is going to think you’re not attracted to her and/or gay and not want to bother with another one. I’d find the guts to give these women at least a kiss if you really want to see them again. Would that really be so bad?

October 3, 2006

Giddy as a schoolgirl

34-year-old Teenager writes,

I’m a 34-year-old female who hasn’t dated in 6 years (it was a disaster of a date) and hasn’t had a boyfriend since she was a teen (the reasons for my near-non-existent social life were self-esteem issues in my twenties, then the demands of developing my career in a field that is typically 99% female–I just shut down the romantic/sexual side of me). I always had great friendships with men, but little romance. But things have changed and as I’ve developed greater confidence, my male friends and co-workers rave about me (unfortunately, they’re already married) and are cheering me on as my social life develops..

Now I’m out of that all-female field and enjoying the male attention I’m getting, including a date with an older man (age 50) in a couple days. But I’m such a neophyte to both the dating scene and the physical aspects that I’m more like a teen than a mature woman in this realm, and I’m terrified of either misunderstanding my date or giving him unclear signals. And I’m further scared of him making a move on me while not having a clue that I’m not just a virgin, but almost totally inexperienced at every level and thus misunderstand my responses. I’ve got a lot of passion and desire, but no clue how to express it in ways that will get me what I want: his awareness that I’m very attracted to him but I need some lessons.

As an example, he’s headed on a business trip and came to say goodbye to me (he’s been dropping in on me at work for weeks–he works in the same building). He gave me a half-hug goodbye as he said he was looking forward to our date. Then after I said something teasing/flirty as he started to leave, he said affectionately, “come on over here” and put his arm out to me again. I just snuggled my head below his shoulder because I was afraid if I looked up at him and made eye contact in that position he would try to kiss me. In short, I panicked, even though I would’ve loved a kiss.

He’s wonderfully sexy and all alpha male (yum!) while also being gentle and rather intuitive. How do I help him understand without scaring him away?

DCB says,

1. Relax. Dating is not a do-or-die activity that requires you to have all your loose-ends tied. If it doesn’t work with this one, you try again until it does with someone else. The worst thing you can do right now is worry about intentions or signals. If you’re not a mind-reader, don’t act like one.

2. Relax. There is nothing anyone can tell you right now that can magically give you the experience and know-how to make your date with him go off without any awkward moments. Just do want you want to do: if you want to be kissed, let him kiss you; if you want to tell him that you haven’t dated a lot, go ahead and tell him without making a big deal out of it; and if you want to have sex with him, tell him to be gentle and enjoy it.

3. Relax. I’m sure with your career you had a path that was mostly clear, through concrete goals and milestones that pushed you higher up on the ladder. Dating and relationships are more fluid, with less cause-effect (doing X will not always lead to Y). Set your expectations low and go with the flow. Deal with sticky issues only when they arrive.

Kathryn says,

I remember feeling like that when I was 15 and had just spent years at all girls school, living in an all-female house, and suddenly found myself in a co-ed environment with boys EVERYWHERE. To me, it seemed all the other girls were totally comfortable with guys, while I viewed them as another species speaking another language. Daunting.

But you just have to calm down and step in, no matter what your age. If you want to kiss, kiss. If you want to say yes to a date, say yes. If you want to strike up a conversation with a guy, do it. The consequences are never as dire as we think, and the rewards are usually worth the risk, particularly when you can chalk up every little success and failure to gaining experience.

In this particular situation, if he’s as intuitive and willing to take the lead as you say, I’d tell him you’re shy and inexperienced if you ever get skittish around him. Let the circumstances of your budding friendship/relationship dictate how much you tell him and when. Then don’t sweat the outcome.

Easier said than done, I know.

October 2, 2006

Big, bad blogcrush

blog groupie writes,

This is ridiculous, but I’ve developed a crush on a guy whose blog I’ve been reading for a while. I don’t actually know him. Does this make me crazy or just pathetic?* Is there any non-stalkerish, minimally pathetic way for me to act on this crush? (Blogger boy is DC-based) I’m sure if I actually met him the crush would disappear instantaneously. Short of that, should I just stop reading his blog?

*And does it make it more/less crazy pathetic if I think I’m prone to crushing on a guy I don’t know in part because I don’t actually know any straight, single guys? I have a good social life, but everyone I know is either married, female or gay, and my hobbies tend to attract mostly women and gay men. No one I know even knows any straight, single men! I know they exist, but I don’t know them.

DCB says,

No, it’s not pathetic if you have a crush on me. In fact, it’s quite natural to become attracted to someone whose writing flows like a gentle river on a crisp, autumn day.

All kidding aside, I suggest you send a short, complimentary email that has a slightly flirtatious undertone (a couple smiley winks will do). If he is open to meeting a fan, he should have no trouble taking it to the next stage after a picture exchange. The thing that bothers me is that I know for a fact there are female fans of mine out there that are too timid to make that first contact. The reward ends up going to the girl who doesn’t mind taking a risk.

Kathryn says,

Ah, your very first blog crush. How cute!! But be forewarned: when you’ve never seen the blog writer in person (not even in pictures), but have developed romantic feelings for said writer based on your own idealistic interpretation of the posts you’ve read, it’s a highly dangerous game - people are rarely what we want them to be. So try to keep your expectations low.

However, like DCB says, bloggers love to hear from “groupies.” Everyone blogs at least in part from a desire to connect with others, and have others appreciate their work. There’s a narcissist in every blogger; that is universal. The degree of narcissism is the only variable. So send a short, fun email with specific reference to a certain post. Try and strike up an email conversation. Youll know soon enough whether the blogger is interested in meeting new people and, specifically, in talking to you. It’s a pretty small risk, in my opinion.

And as for your question about stopping reading his blog… Let’s be honest. Could you? I doubt it!

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