First Date DC

La di da writes,

So i dated this guy about five months ago. We dated for only four months (and only saw each other about once a week). It never got overly serious, but it was exclusive (I am SURE about that, no question)…mostly because he was scared to be serious since he “lost himself” with his last girlfriend (THREE years ago). I broke up with him because I hated how little we saw of each other and I felt like his heart wasn’t in it completely. Looking back, I wonder if it was my insecurity holding the relationship back. Maybe I was expecting too much too soon. He was as nice as can be, always called when he said, we saw each other at least once a week, he didnt want to be with anyone else, and he was honest and up front.

Anyway, we broke up, but he said we should take a “break” and see how we feel- not close any doors. We are still in touch. We probably talk about once a week (mutually initiated), and see each other once a month, sometimes less (usually initiated by me, but usually he is way into it). Three weeks after we broke up I said that maybe I was rushing my expectations of our relationship and we should try again…but he said that I was right about how we shouldnt date if he never wants to be serious with anyone and he shouldnt be dating anyone right now. He has stuck to that and hasnt dated anyone in the last five months. I have, but I still miss him. I didnt even think I liked him that much and I wonder if I’m just attached…but I still get SO happy to hear from him and look forward to seeing him like none other- yet i can’t imagine spending my life with him.

We’ve hooked up once since the breakup and he said he didnt want to go down that road because he feels like it isnt a good idea. He still feels like he doesnt want to date anyone. He doesnt want no strings attached because “i am too good for that.” He also says he’s never kept in touch with an ex gf before and isnt sure why we are still in touch, and he has done some really nice things for me including painting my apt at no cost.

What the hell is going on here? should i pursue this? should i cut it off? is there any way for me to get him to realize he should give us another shot? why are we still in touch like this? we definitely aren’t ‘friends’…we dont talk about dating others, etc. I am 26 by the way, maybe I am too old to pursue something like this. There’s just some kind of gut feeling that nags at me thinking that this isn’t over yet- but the whole time we dated i was never ALL about him- but i also felt like he was really holding back, that I never got the real him. Sorry this is so long. Anyway, we’ve been talking more lately and i feel like MAYBE something has changed but i cant tell if im just being a girl and reading into things. I don’t want to beg him to date me again, but i feel like something is there and i dont want to let it go either. any thoughts?

Kathryn says,

You already know what the “something” is that you’re feeling - insecurity and doubt. You didn’t like him that much and you don’t see any kind of real future with him. You only get excited by his calls and his assistance because it’s attention from the opposite sex, which I’m guessing you aren’t getting anywhere else right now.

I would suggest you assess whether you really do value his friendship, with no chance of dating and no romantic ideas. If and only if you do like him as a person and feel you guys could have a solid, reciprocal friendship, stay in touch with him.

DCB says,

It’s questions like this that make me want to experiment with homosexuality. YOU dumped him and YOU can’t imagine spending your life with him yet you are trying to analyze his obscure ramblings to see if you two have a chance? Really, does it even matter? You sound like you would be unhappy either way because of mental issues you have going on. I hope he finds another girl and dumps your ass permanently. Maybe that would make the decision easier for you.

Candice writes,

I met this guy earlier this year, say February. There was instant chemistry and we enjoyed each other’s company immensely. But one night while we were hanging out he tells me about his X and how he still feels for her and is trying to sort it out. I said “cool, take your time” because I wasnt necessarily looking for a serious relationship just something more than f-buddies. So I left everything up to him and we continued to hang out once in a while…but then that stopped.

Its now October and I havent seen him since June but he calls ALL OF THE TIME. When I bring up the fact we havent hung out he kinda dismisses it. Its utterly frustrating to me because how does someone call all of the time but never want to hang out? If he’s dating someone else then why not say so because we were never a couple? If he isn’t and just want to be phone buddies, then why!? What is the point of being phone friends when we live less than 10 mins away from each other? Im slightly irritated and my only resolution is to not take his calls. What is he thinking???

Thanks,
Slightly irritated

DCB says,

Alright girls. If a guy ever brings up anything about an ex that he still connects with, he is gently blowing you off. There are very few exceptions to this rule. In this particular case, his actions pretty clearly state that he has no romantic interest in you. I don’t know why he wants to be phone buddies, but that’s where you’re at, and where you will always be at.

Kathryn says,

DCB is totally right. I’d only add a suggestion as to why he keeps calling and wanting to be phone buddies with you: he needs constant ego reassurance. You are always available when he wants to talk, and I’d guess that whenever he tells you about personal issues or his ex, you pump him up and make him feel great about himself. Ergo, he keeps calling. If you get nothing out of this “friendship” but frustration, then yes, stop taking his calls.

Anon writes,

Super busy mid-30’s gal meets even more busy late-30’s guy via match.com. Chemistry evident, flirting ensues, they begin with a few dates which stretch out over a month due to scheduling difficulties. Both travel extensively (2+ weeks a month) for work and the nature of both their careers (especially his) is that they are expected to be responsive and available pretty much 24/7. So lots of cancellations and rescheduling.

Gal is horny and just wants to get it on and offers NSA fuck buddy relationship figuring schedules would never allow for a “real” relationship. Guy says no, he wants a “real” relationship pointing out age, mutual desire to eventually settle down and have kids, etc. Guy indicates that he’s falling very hard for gal. Gal likes guy so agrees to give relationship a shot.

Three months later…Gal is totally frustrated by guy’s lack of availability (always due to work) and spotty communication. He’s frustrated as well as this is the first time that he’s had to work around someone else’s schedule than his own. At this point, both have made significant emotional investments into the relationship (the M word came up recently in discussion). Neither party is going to be able to change their schedules (he’s military and she’s political) and both are very successful and committed to their careers (she through Nov. elections, at least).

Knowing that for the foreseeable future, meeting up will be a hit or miss proposition (haven’t physically seen each other in almost 4 weeks), is this relationship worth pursuing?

DCB says,

I love the irony in questions like this. These two people educated themselves and sacrificed a lot of leisure time to make enough money so they can raise a successful family. Then they finally meet the ideal person, but, wait, that career thing is still ongoing. Now it’s all about the career; relationships suffer and the kids thing doesn’t really pan out. As long as both of you stay blindly committed to your careers, you deserve to be lonely. If you can’t make this work with someone you really like, you will never be able to make it work. Freeze your eggs.

Kathryn says,

Do you love each other? Does he make you happier than anyone has ever made you? Do you honestly see yourself married to him, having his babies, growing old with him, reveling in each other’s successes, and forsaking all others ’til death do you part? Because if yes, MAKE IT WORK.

Whose career can be moved/changed with the least negative impact on the relationship? Can he retire from the military and move into consulting? Can you retire from active political work and move into consulting? Something? Fight for it if it’s what you truly want. If you can’t find the fight, I don’t think you want it.

If you liked this post then I think you will like my Roosh's Game Tips Email Newsletter For Guys. It's completely free and your first newsletter will be about how to meet girls in coffee shops. Following that will be newsletters on getting phone numbers, dealing with flakes, teasing girls the right way, handling cockblockers, meeting girls in foreign countries, and a whole lot more. Your email address will always remain private and you can unsubscribe at any time. To sign up put your first name and email address below and click the button.

turned off writes,

So I started hooking up with a guy in my graduate program. We’ve known each other for 3 months and have become good friends. We started hooking up recently and it’s been pretty consistent. He’s sweet, funny, cute, smart and best of all he loves my feisty attitude and definitely puts me in my place. Now the thing is while we’ve hooked up numerous times, nothing has gone below the belt -at least I haven’t gone below the belt on him. Making out and stuff has been nice and I’m definitely turned on but ideally by the third time I’ve hooked up with someone I’d have gone a little further. My problem is that I just don’t feel like ripping off his clothes and going after him.

In fact, when I do start taking his clothes off, I get totally turned off by his body and it ruins the moment for me. He’s not overweight or too skinny, it’s just that there’s no muscle AT ALL underneath his clothes. I’ve dated wrestlers, runners, rugby players, lawyers, and salesmen all with different kinds of bodies but all had some amount of athleticism and toned muscle underneath those clothes. This new one is completely opposite and it feels like I’m grabbing onto mush instead of pawing at his chest.

I know you’re wondering what grounds I have to judge on, so I’ll let you know that I’m no body builder, but I do work out 3-4 times a week, watch what I eat and have a pretty toned body (triathlete, ex soccer player) but of course it’s not perfect. I believe in taking care of your body and value that in a partner.

He calls, emails, invites me to go hiking, and generally treats me like a princess. I think he’d like things to progress but I’m not sure what to do with these feelings. I just don’t know if I’m being way too shallow about all this or if forcing myself to become more physically attracted to him is a lost cause.

Kathryn says,

This is a tough one. On one hand, I’m tempted to encourage you to encourage him to do more hiking and more physical activities with you to help tone him up. There’s so much good there, he treats you well, blah blah blah.

But honestly, I don’t think this will work. I firmly believe that, if a person is right for you, you don’t have to convince yourself of it. You have spent three months with him, but can’t get over his mushy physique. That indicates you just aren’t feeling it, and probably never will.

I know so many happy, passionate couples who find each other ridiculously sexy despite his beer belly or her big butt. If you can’t see past this guy’s lack of muscle, you should take it as a sign that he isn’t right for you in general. Move on to someone you’re totally hot for, and let him do the same.

DCB says,

It’s not going to work. As someone who works out, it’s very hard for me to date a girl whose body is soft like my stained pillow. What you could do is put him on a workout plan and check up on him monthly to look for any new muscle growth. I think in two months he can make a significant difference if he goes to the gym six times a week.

Leave him as a friend and toy with his emotions, never telling him the real reason, until he cries himself to bed every night yelling “Why, why..” etc.

Honesty as the best policy writes,

So, I used to like this guy. We had a first date filled with chemistry…and too much alcohol…which led to a lot of physical stuff really fast. I had just come out of a long long relationship (4 days earlier!) and so I probably sounded a bit weird when after our very physical first date I told him I wasn’t quite ready for sex. We went on a few more dates, all very formal and date-like, and all ending with everything but sex. So, I knew it was casual and I was enjoying everything because I felt like with a guy six years older than me (he is 31), he would be mature and respectful and an all around good guy. In many ways, he is all of these things. However, a week since our last date, and I havent heard from him.

So, I am all for casual dating but I feel like if things do not work out, any mature guy just needs to say that and we can all move on no worse for the wear. I really want to send him an email and just let him know I dont think it is right to blow someone off…that if you respect a girl you are hanging out with, you just need to tell her if you are not into her. I believe this IN PRINCIPLE and I am sick of guys getting away with this junk.

So here is my email draft:
It just does not feel very nice or respectful that I havent heard from you. I am mature enough to handle rejection, but I guess I make sure to date or get to know people that always have the decency to just say something if things arent working. No big deal, I just wish you had done that…it makes me feel a bit stupid for being as intimate as we were. Anyway, no hard feelings. I am sure we will bump into each other at some point.

I dont want to sound bitter or naive, but I just want to be honest. I dont even like this guy any more (obviously) and I couldn’t care less if things were awkward if we run into each other. I just think smart, otherwise nice guys should treat women better! Do you think I can do this and get my point across without sounding too harsh and to hopefully make him be a bit more honest with the next girl???

Kathryn says,

I sincerely hope you never sent that. Sometimes, when you REALLY want to contact someone who has rejected you, you just have to write it all out, save it as a draft, and leave it alone for a week or at least a few days. Then, read it after that time has passed - I guarantee you won’t want to send it. I am guessing seeing it posted here will cure you of the urge to send it to him, but just in case you still want to, please remember this: not reacting is the best possible way to show you are not affected. When you have to take the time to say “I couldn’t care less,” you clearly do care. Don’t give him the satisfaction.

DCB says,

Let’s do some translations:

“I am mature enough to handle rejection” means “I’m falling apart at the seams. Why don’t you like me… why????”

“it makes me feel a bit stupid for being as intimate…” means “I feel like a dirty whore.”

“I am sure we will bump into each other at some point.” means “Please please call me.”

“I don’t want to sound bitter or naive…” means “I’m bitter and naive.”

“I just think…guys should treat women better!” means “Why aren’t relationships more like the one in The Wedding Singer?”

Please send that email. I’m sure his friends will get a good laugh once he forwards it around.

Two at a Time? writes,

I moved to DC in September but was here in May for two weeks. During that time, I went out a few times with Boy #1. It was the hottest kissing ever, but we decided not to sleep together at that time and said we’d reconnect when I moved here permanently.

We kept in touch via email over the summer, but after I sent him my new DC number, he didn’t call. I was very disappointed but moved on, figuring his interest had waned. Then a week ago, I got an email from him saying: Why aren’t you returning my calls? Turns out he had been calling my old phone number for about a month, confused as to why I was ignoring him. So, we laughed off our missed connection and decided to have dinner.

Meanwhile, I had met someone else here (Boy #2). We’ve been seeing each other for about three weeks and have slept together. Ahead of my dinner with Boy #1, I sent him an email noting that I was seeing someone else and we could be friends, but I really wanted to see him. He didn’t get the email. So, at the end of our dinner, he tried to ask me out, and I awkwardly had to tell him about my new boy. He seemed really surprised and said: “Well, I see you felt this was important to mention so it must be serious — it wasn’t like I was going to propose right now or anything but I guess I shouldn’t call you again.” I didn’t know what to say. I have never dated two people at the same time, so I thought it was polite to tell a guy with certain expectations that I was essentially sleeping with someone else. I would have been fine being friends but I know guys don’t necessarily want that. So, he sort of rushed off, leaving me with the distinct impression that I would never hear from him again. He said the equivalent of “have a nice life.”

A day later, I am out with Boy #2 and get a text message from Boy #1, asking if I want to go out again and thanking me for coming out to dinner the night before. HUH??? I thought I had witnessed him basically fleeing from my life as fast as he could.

I don’t get it. Is he wanting to be friends in case it doesn’t work out with Boy #2? I confess the same thought was in my head, but I don’t want to lead anyone on and it’s going well right now with my new man.

DCB says,

How do you decide not to sleep with each other? I’d love to be in on that conversation, where you two are going back and forth with pros on cons on whether you should be penetrated.

Boy one now sees you as nothing more than a receptable, so he just wants to bang you. It took him a day to think about it. Sometimes it takes us a while to figure things out.

Kathryn says,

So in a perfect world, you would keep dating boy one and boy two would just be a friend? Or do you hope, if things didn’t work out with boy one, that boy two would step right in and take over?

To me, it sounds like the latter is the case, and I’m sure he realized the same thing. I think if he thinks he has a chance, he’ll go for it. Which he did. What you have to do is decide what YOU want, and go for that.

In our endless efforts to help others and entertain you (and ourselves), FDDC has decided to start a new feature: Love Guerrillas. Once a week, we will find a blog post in which we hear a faint cry for our help, and answer it here.

This week, we respond to one of the ladies at Playing with Matches, who wrote:

…What started out as what I thought would be my first-ever one night stand has progressed into dinner, drinks, and sex, once or twice a week, accompanied by daily conversations and texting throughout the day… There is another girl who in fact works in our same circles, thus complicating things…

Read the full post here

DCB says,

Okay guys here is a lesson for you: this girl knows her guy is fucking some other girl yet she is still very hung up on him. He is in control, upfront with his needs, and playing her just enough to continue getting sex without having to commit. In other words he is a player so his actions must be commended, for if he were to show any weakness she would start string him with games for a couple weeks until finally kicking him to the curb for Stan from happy hour.

I do think there is slightly more than “friends with benefits” here; when I have had them I don’t recall ever calling more than enough to continue a steady supply of late-night sex. Dinner and drinks? Waste of money and time. While this guy does like her, I think she knows he will never commit to her.

Kathryn says,

In his failed marriage, did he cheat on his wife? If so… he’s continuing this behavior. Did she cheat on him? If so… he could be wanting to play the field so he doesn’t feel like a sucker for sticking with a woman who could be seeing other men. I know that’s pretty basic dimestore psychology, but that’s because it’s probably true.

Anyway, motivation, behavioral patterns, and past hurts aside, he is clearly interested in more than just sex with you. However, his interest is not so strong that he’ll stop seeing a girl he doesn’t really like. Eventually, won’t that make you feel pretty undesirable in general? I think you should preserve your dignity and back off. He’s already told you he can’t commit right now, and you seem to want that. I wouldn’t settle for what he’s giving you, and I am certain you can’t fake being okay with what he does give you much longer.

Too smart for his own good writes,

Hey guys,

I need your advice. I’m a 19 year old guy and recently started my first real relationship at college - we’ve been going out a little over a month. She’s hot, nice, and fun to be around, but there’s one huge sticking point - she’s dumb. I’m not talking about a little slow; this is Carrot Top-dumb. It’s gotten to the point where I’m almost embarrased when she has a conversation with one of my friends because of the sheer idiocy.

Here’s the problem: I like her enough to overlook the stupidity and take the relationship for what it is, a light sex-filled adventure. My problem, however, is that she wants it to progress, to meet my parents, etc. I have no desire to let this happen. What should I do? Thanks!

DCB says,

If you are banging a hot girl I’m guessing you have at least some intelligence to make up excuses that are believable to a stupid 19-year-old.

“I don’t know if it’s a good idea to meet my parents because they made the last girl I took home cry.”

“They have come down with a mysterious illness and always have to wear respiratory masks. Conversations with them, as you can imagine, are awkward.”

“There is no way I would take a stupid whore such as yourself to visit my family.”

You get the idea. But think of the bigger picture and be smart: use the social proof you get with this hot one for an upgrade.

Kathryn says,

What should you do? You should be glad you’re only 19, otherwise I’d ream you for immaturity and insensitivity. Instead, I’ll just say, if you don’t want to let the relationship progress, and you don’t like her enough to have her around your friends and family, then maybe you should be getting sex elsewhere. She wants more, and you can’t give it. Let her go to find that elsewhere as well.

Underneath the Pines writes,

Hey Kathryn and DCB,

So here’s the deal. About a month and a half ago I met a guy online. For the month we were together, we really clicked and things were going well. No games, no drama. But, from the very beginning, he knew that I was going back to school for my senior year (which is in the Boston area). However, DC is my home, I visit home at least once a month for varying periods of time and my career plans are definitely bringing me back to the city upon graduation. We agreed that we would “take things a day at a time” while I was away. I told him that I would be busy at school, so a phone call once a week and/or a couple emails would be sufficient. We also talked of him coming up to Boston (he has family there anyway) as well as me popping down for weekends here and there.

I am having two problems, which are making me start to doubt his feelings. First, so far I’ve been the one initiating most of the contact (which granted, hasn’t been very much), whereas this wasn’t the case when I was in DC. The last time we talked on the phone though, he said I could call whenever I needed encouragement with school-related stress and that I could “mention that you are seeing me” when I asked him for advice on how I should deal with a legal situation I was briefly involved in this weekend. So on that front, I’m getting kinda mixed signals.

My second problem is related to his online profile. While I don’t get upset that it is still active (I check mine every so often too), I noticed that yesterday he added a picture. I don’t really know what to make of that.

Things were going so great with him, but I am feeling like maybe I should break it off, if only to save face. He said he would call me before this Thursday (when he leaves for a short trip), but I am wondering if he will.

I haven’t raised any of my concerns with him, for fear of sounding dramatic or angst-filled. So, besides talking with him, what are my options for sussing out whether I should say goodbye or not? Thanks guys!

DCB says,

It is pretty obvious he has already begun the search for a hotter, smarter, and more available girlfriend. Prepare to be dumped. The reason it is taking this long is because his game was rusty.

Kathryn says,

None of these things are really positive, I’m sorry to say. Adding a photo or logging in to his account (thereby keeping his profile active) isn’t a sure sign your guy is on the prowl, but when coupled with your complete lack of commitment and his minimal interest in contacting you… not good. Not good at all.

I know you like this guy, but you’re what, 20? 21? And you only went out for a month? And you’re long-distance? And you don’t really have any idea that you’d ever end up in the same city? I don’t see the appeal.

I have to ask one more question: why him?

More: Flirt by text messages

2Beta writes,

Well, after several years of self-denial, I’ve finally realized that I am a wuss. I haven’t had a girlfriend in 7years and for the girls that I am interested in, I find myself trying too hard to be the guy that a girl wants. Nice to the point where it’s sickening actually (extreme beta behavior such as giving gifts, trying to like the things she likes, etc). I’ve finally stopped, but now I’m at a point where I don’t know how to begin actually attracting women as opposed to just supplicating them? Where the hell do I start?

DCB says,

It’s a long journey to go from where you are at to being desired by women, but I’ll give you the first couple of steps:

1. Get mad. To do well with women, you need to view them as inferior to men in every way. If you do not think men are superior, you are doomed to things like heartache and marriage instead of sexual variety.

2. Build yourself up, both literally and figuratively. Hit the gym, get the testosterone pumping, and get happy with how you look. Experiment with some new looks and styles. Have fun and don’t worry about friends who criticize your transformation.

3. Stop caring. You need to let go of what people think of you, men and women. You’re not in a competition with anyone but yourself. It’s starts with doing things you would never do because of embarrasment, like taking a blow-up doll everywhere you go. Sure it will be uncomfortable but after that nothing about your appearance or actions will matter.

So in conclusion, buy a blow-up doll. They are cheap on ebay.

Kathryn says,

I do what you do sometimes. DCB likes to call me a gamma female - I have qualities of both alpha and beta types. And in my more beta moments, I do a lot of supplicating, indulging of the s.o.’s interests, and sacrificing of my own needs. And I have to say, it can breed resentment, which SUCKS. And then the alpha comes out. But that’s me, not you.

Anyway, I don’t think it’s a bad thing to want to share your partner’s interests. Taking turns doing each other’s things, and enjoying a lot of the same things, make relationships more equal and more fun. But you’re abandoning everything you like, it seems. If you can, on your own, identify what you find most important. Establish your own priorities. Then try to find a woman who meshes with those priorities. For example: If your career always comes first, don’t take a day off to attend a crocheting seminar with her, but let her show you her handiwork later and give it proper admiration and attention. And maybe buy her a new crochet hook. (archaic example, I know, and heinous gender stereotypes. mea culpa)

Women want you to acknowledge and make an effort to understand them, but not lose yourself in the process. It’s a fine line to walk, and a tough balance to strike, I know. But it can be done.